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Kim Brown: Okay, good good afternoon or good morning to everyone attending.
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Kim Brown: You are in the HOA violations When To Get An Attorney Involved webinar presented by Condo Control, we will just give everyone a couple more minutes to sign on, and then we will get started.
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Stanley Feldsott: To do that.
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Kim Brown: Okay we’ve hit 1pm Eastern time, so we will go ahead and get started.
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Kim Brown: I want to thank everyone for attending each way violations went to get an attorney involved.
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Kim Brown: I know you all are busy, so we will keep this to about an hour.
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Kim Brown: This kind of this is kind of controls second violation webinar, but this time around, you will have the opportunity here to hear from one of California is top.
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Kim Brown: association law attorneys so he’s worked with tons of boards and property managers has lots of experience and is here today to answer some of your questions.
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Kim Brown: So, leading us through this webinar will be three fantastic people.
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Kim Brown: We have years combined association experience, so we have Miryam Scanga who is our customer success manager and she’s also a registered property manager.
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Kim Brown: So Miryam has a really great understanding of how communities work what creates some problems for them and how to make them happy.
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Kim Brown: Brian Bosscher is our President of Condo Control and he is also the founder and he is the treasurer of his own board.
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Kim Brown: So, Brian was inspired to start kind of control, after having so many frustrating experiences in his own condo building and now his company works to find solutions for other ways and condos.
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Kim Brown: And we have Stanley Feldsott and Stanley has been practicing law in California, since 1970 he’s a managing partner at Feldsott & Lee, which was incorporated in 1975.
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Kim Brown: And he was also a founding director of the CIA I which I’m sure you’re all familiar with the southern county chapter and its second President.
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Kim Brown: Stanley’s from continues to be a leader in Community association law and he is known as one of the top Community association trial attorneys so he still is in court today.
00:04:36.180 –> 00:04:51.270
Kim Brown: And he’s very highly respected by his peers, and if that wasn’t enough, he also has a lifetime teaching credential from the state of California and has taught in both law, schools and Community college systems, so thank you so much Stanley for being with us today.
00:04:51.870 –> 00:04:53.370
Kim Brown: And, yes.
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Kim Brown: we’re thrilled to have you and my name is Kim I’m the writer at condom control and I’ll be moderating today.
00:05:04.080 –> 00:05:16.440
Kim Brown: So just to give you an idea of what we’ll be covering here’s a high level outline we’ll start by looking at why rules need to be enforced, and what happens when they’re not.
00:05:16.950 –> 00:05:28.260
Kim Brown: What factors make it challenging to enforce violations how far must each always go when cases start to get contentious and then when is it appropriate to get an attorney involved.
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Kim Brown: At the very end, we will take questions, but I do invite all of you as well to type anything in the Q amp a or chat section as we’re going to so you don’t forget and just that we can address them sooner.
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Kim Brown: If you do have any questions that are directly for Stanley which, I imagine, many of them will be please just make that clear as well and he’ll do his best to help you out.
00:05:54.270 –> 00:05:55.890
Kim Brown: So with that let’s get started.
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Kim Brown: we’ll start with, why do rules need to be enforced why can’t we just let people govern themselves and Miryam since you’ve been in communities I’ll start with you what’s the reason for rule enforcement.
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Miryam Scanga: yeah you know what I have one word for it harmony, if you don’t have a harmonious living really it’s just a disaster and.
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Miryam Scanga: It could be the next netflix special truly so harmony is definitely important when you’re buying into a lifestyle, which is condos and a choice it’s very much a lifestyle choice when you decide to move in.
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Kim Brown: So you’re agreeing pretty much to everything.
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Kim Brown: And you know if there yeah so what happens when they’re not enforced though.
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Miryam Scanga: What disaster um you know it could make a volunteer job as being a board of directors, it could give them a lot more headaches.
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Miryam Scanga: I also am on the board of directors myself, and you know you have an hour set aside every month to do your administrative tasks and to talk and to things like that, but.
00:07:05.250 –> 00:07:22.530
Miryam Scanga: When you start having issues in the community regarding rules those meetings become two three hours long and the the task of just being a board of director it’s not so simple anymore so really it can just cause such havoc for something that should be so simple really.
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Kim Brown: it’s a great point it’s not just the owners it’s also staff and management that are impacted as well when was art systematically enforce thrilling.
00:07:35.130 –> 00:07:52.170
Kim Brown: Perfect so with that what, what are the factors that sometimes make rules more challenging to to enforce Is it the process that a community is using is it that rules are outdated, or is it kind of a combination of those things.
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Miryam Scanga: I could take that one first I definitely think it’s a mixture of a little bit of everything, the one that I want to touch on the most that I’ve seen.
00:08:01.890 –> 00:08:10.230
Miryam Scanga: Being a property manager is just cultural expectations again buying into that lifestyle what culturally is expected.
00:08:11.040 –> 00:08:19.140
Miryam Scanga: You know if it’s noise complaints versus garbage the low level of cleanliness that is very different, depending on.
00:08:19.770 –> 00:08:27.480
Miryam Scanga: You know, different cities and communities things like that language barriers as well you know if English is not the first language or.
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Miryam Scanga: You know you’ve never lived in a condo before you’ve never lived in an HOA before students, you know just student living is it’s a huge difference it’s a.
00:08:37.260 –> 00:08:54.990
Miryam Scanga: Total different way of communicating with folks who have never lived on their own before if they’re younger versus folks who have lived on their own for 40 years and they are set in their ways so knowing how to communicate to both is, it is important for sure right.
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Kim Brown: And Brian I’ll ask you this, and I’m sure we’ve we’ve dealt with some communities that don’t really have a process for rule enforcement.
00:09:06.030 –> 00:09: 10.200
Kim Brown: Does that also make it more challenging.
00:09:10.920 –> 00:09:19.710
Brian Bosscher: It does, I think it makes it difficult for people when the rules are enforced sort of ad hoc way they don’t know what to expect.
00:09:20.190 –> 00:09:31.050
Brian Bosscher: You know, they may occasionally see enforcement for some things but not others or for certain unit owners, but not others, and that can make it frustrating, so I think one of the things that we see.
00:09:32.580 –> 00:09:42.870
Brian Bosscher: That makes communities very successful is when they’re very systematic about their enforcement and having sort of a systematic approach to that so we know here’s the steps.
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Brian Bosscher: And then we’re going to follow those steps every single time so that everybody gets treated the same way, and when you don’t do that it can cause all sorts of issues.
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Kim Brown: perfect and then, so perhaps using some sort of tool or software would also make that easier.
00:10:02.190 –> 00:10:12.360
Brian Bosscher: But not not to you know I think there’s two things that can be systematic here one is it can just be a manual process like it could be an excel sheet that has all of your violations in it.
00:10:12.720 –> 00:10:19.500
Brian Bosscher: And you sort of track who scrolling through the process and what stage they’re at that can work fine depending on the size of your association.
00:10:19.920 –> 00:10:28.800
Brian Bosscher: When you start to get into a bigger association, if you got 2000 3000 units and the volume goes up that’s when you need a bit more automation to help you do that.
00:10:31.980 –> 00:10:34.650
Kim Brown: Okay, and sometimes you know.
00:10:35.910 –> 00:10:46.320
Kim Brown: A Community made rules 10 1520 years ago and they just don’t serve the owners anymore, the way they use you, I think that can also make it challenging for.
00:10:46.950 –> 00:10:55.440
Kim Brown: owners to respect those rules and instead of trying to force them to follow them it’s recommended that you actually update you can update and change the rules.
00:10:55.980 –> 00:11:09.450
Kim Brown: or met them and there’s no set time for doing this, but board our boards are encouraged to do a thorough review of governing documents every four to five years and kind of weed out what’s not really working anymore.
00:11:10.980 –> 00:11:21.360
Kim Brown: So I do already have a couple questions take a moment here, yes, we you can definitely get a recording of this, we will be sending it out to everyone afterwards.
00:11:23.460 –> 00:11:37.020
Kim Brown: What do we do when a homeowner has a tub drain that is leaking into units below and she will not fix or let us fix, let us in so we can fix it do we want to save that for later we can.
00:11:37.350 –> 00:11:41.670
Brian Bosscher: Get will maybe save that for the when we’re sort of talking about specific issues, I think.
00:11:41.820 –> 00:11:43.650
Brian Bosscher: That sounds good that’s a great question.
00:11:43.710 –> 00:11:55.110
Kim Brown: Oh yes, thank you Carol yeah we’ll save the more complex ones for the end and then Paul says perception or actual selective enforcement, that is also true.
00:11:56.910 –> 00:12:09.600
Kim Brown: How do you measure like if it is if rules are actually being enforced regularly is that a bit of pull and push or is there a way that you can actually measure.
00:12:10.620 –> 00:12:11.670
Kim Brown: Proper enforcement.
00:12:12.780 –> 00:12:16.770
Brian Bosscher: But I’ll take a stab at that, but I think it really goes back to having a.
00:12:17.850 –> 00:12:32.760
Brian Bosscher: Like I said being systematic about it let’s say you have a list of here’s the violations of the rules that we’re aware of and making sure that everything is on that list so you’re not leaving somebody off the list you’re not skipping steps in the process, just because.
00:12:33.960 –> 00:12:37.860
Brian Bosscher: You know it’s a family member of our board members something like that right.
00:12:39.960 –> 00:12:40.200
Brian Bosscher: So.
00:12:41.820 –> 00:12:42.090
Brian Bosscher: The.
00:12:42.210 –> 00:12:43.800
Brian Bosscher: I see one other one, I think.
00:12:44.520 –> 00:13:02.730
Brian Bosscher: we’re just relates to your last slide here Kim, so I think it’s worth mentioning now so if HOA board wants to update CC and RS or bylaws are they required to hire an HOA a train to update the governing documents, and I think, certainly if you want to sort of answer that one I think that’s.
00:13:04.170 –> 00:13:05.070
Brian Bosscher: that’s very relevant.
00:13:06.960 –> 00:13:13.350
Stanley Feldsott: You know the worst thing in the world is you adopt some rules that are honored for simple.
00:13:14.880 –> 00:13:17.490
Stanley Feldsott: Or the language isn’t clear.
00:13:18.510 –> 00:13:36.390
Stanley Feldsott: And so anytime you’re adopting new rules are having your Rules revealed, you should consult with an attorney there may be legislation passed that boyd some of the rules.
00:13:38.820 –> 00:13:41.280
Stanley Feldsott: There, for example in California.
00:13:42.990 –> 00:13:44.400
Stanley Feldsott: You can’t prohibit.
00:13:45.630 –> 00:13:47.550
Stanley Feldsott: dogs totally.
00:13:50.880 –> 00:14:03.150
Stanley Feldsott: And so, these are things we need to look at and why you want or attorney to review them and sometimes some boards.
00:14:04.260 –> 00:14:13.380
Stanley Feldsott: are not, why does articulate as others in how they phrase the rule, and so you want to make sure that it’s clear.
00:14:15.150 –> 00:14:18.330
Stanley Feldsott: And then the most important thing is, I always tell.
00:14:19.440 –> 00:14:24.120
Stanley Feldsott: clients you gotta let the Members know what these rules are.
00:14:26.160 –> 00:14:35.130
Stanley Feldsott: And Oscar be bringing them annually, is, I think, an excellent idea.
00:14:36.990 –> 00:14:41.160
Stanley Feldsott: In California now before you kind of got the role.
00:14:42.990 –> 00:14:50.970
Stanley Feldsott: You have to distribute the proposed roll to the membership and get their feedback.
00:14:52.980 –> 00:15:20.220
Stanley Feldsott: And if you then adopt the roll the remedy used to be that alien well, the only remedy you had was to remove the board, now the Members can force a membership meeting to vote on the world and so these tend to make the rules, much more more suitable, because then pursue getting input.
00:15:21.270 –> 00:15:38.550
Stanley Feldsott: Members have the right to challenge the role in membership meeting, although it’s rarely successful but it’s there and I think it makes it a lot easier for you in terms of enforcement.
00:15:40.290 –> 00:15:40.710
Stanley Feldsott: But.
00:15:42.060 –> 00:15:56.490
Stanley Feldsott: definitely have your rules will be viewed in most States they can’t conflict with the CC and RS or State law.
00:15:57.720 –> 00:15:58.020
Stanley Feldsott: yeah.
00:15:59.610 –> 00:16:00.150
Kim Brown: Thanks.
00:16:00.660 –> 00:16:10.350
Brian Bosscher: Thanks Stanley, so I will add on to that so again the laws vary state by state, so you have to get local advice in Ontario we have the same thing, where.
00:16:10.860 –> 00:16:23.910
Brian Bosscher: Any rule that the board passes has to be sent out to Members, and then they have 30 days, if they want to mount a challenge to that they can get signatures and call a meeting, and then they have the option to overturn that rule.
00:16:25.020 –> 00:16:26.790
Brian Bosscher: There is one.
00:16:28.020 –> 00:16:37.410
Brian Bosscher: One question here we’ll try and pull questions that are relevant to some of the topics we’re discussing here Susan has a question she says she has a situation where.
00:16:39.090 –> 00:16:43.080
Brian Bosscher: Members of their small board repeatedly vote to adopt rules that violate laws.
00:16:44.340 –> 00:16:47.280
Brian Bosscher: How do we can’t contract this.
00:16:51.390 –> 00:17:05.640
Stanley Feldsott: I think the answer is replacing the born doing a recall it’s very difficult and not very practical to run into court every time.
00:17:06.420 –> 00:17:27.210
Stanley Feldsott: A board violates some State law or is violating the CC and RS and the real remedy is recall and then most states California, you only need 5% of the Members to for some meeting.
00:17:28.380 –> 00:17:37.170
Stanley Feldsott: And then you need a core I met the meeting, but then you just need a majority of the quorum to remove the board.
00:17:38.940 –> 00:17:43.470
Stanley Feldsott: You do want to have replacement directors lined up.
00:17:44.820 –> 00:17:56.310
Stanley Feldsott: Once had a case where they went around got signatures at them beating voted for recall, but then no one would be was willing to serve.
00:17:57.120 –> 00:18:11.670
Stanley Feldsott: And so they had to go through this process of begging people who they just recall to go back on the floor, so you need babs people lined up if you’re successful yep.
00:18:12.480 –> 00:18:13.110
Brian Bosscher: Great point.
00:18:14.220 –> 00:18:19.980
Brian Bosscher: Okay, why don’t we move on and we’ve got lots of lots of questions here so.
00:18:21.300 –> 00:18:26.370
Brian Bosscher: One last thing here someone asked what is the CC and our and.
00:18:27.630 –> 00:18:31.200
Brian Bosscher: Stanley Maybe you can define that for us, because some people might not be familiar.
00:18:31.980 –> 00:18:47.640
Stanley Feldsott: yeah well that was kind of shorthand for declaration of covenants conditions and restrictions and says, the document that is recorded and goes with the title.
00:18:48.960 –> 00:18:55.170
Stanley Feldsott: When someone purchase their unit, and it has a number of.
00:18:56.250 –> 00:19:00.960
Stanley Feldsott: do’s and don’ts you know know conducting business let’s say in.
00:19:04.080 –> 00:19:11.190
Stanley Feldsott: California under limited circumstances, you can pro can be age restrictions.
00:19:13.230 –> 00:19:17.310
Stanley Feldsott: All kinds of things that would go with the title.
00:19:18.990 –> 00:19:24.420
Stanley Feldsott: And they are much more more easily and force.
00:19:25.500 –> 00:19:33.510
Stanley Feldsott: Because the fact that they’re recorded there’s a presumption whether it’s true or not.
00:19:34.530 –> 00:19:43.080
Stanley Feldsott: That you know what the rule was in the CC and RS or declaration of covenants conditions and restrictions.
00:19:44.490 –> 00:19:49.830
Stanley Feldsott: And the violation is one is sorry.
00:19:51.510 –> 00:20:00.450
Brian Bosscher: Okay, thank you for that so everybody’s on the same page was the definition okay Kim why don’t we move on and then we’ll take more questions.
00:20:00.930 –> 00:20:02.580
Kim Brown: Okay, and great questions, thank you.
00:20:04.170 –> 00:20:07.980
Kim Brown: Yes, so let’s say you have a situation.
00:20:09.300 –> 00:20:18.240
Kim Brown: Where make it up giant rv on on an owners are in an owner’s driveway it’s too big to be towed a normal tow company.
00:20:18.810 –> 00:20:36.510
Kim Brown: They refuse to move it and you know board is has tried everything they’ve issued a warning letters they issued formal violation letters they’ve issued fines and is under just will not cooperate how far must aboard go to try to resolve this issue.
00:20:39.690 –> 00:20:44.250
Kim Brown: So that can be directed to anyone who wants to try to.
00:20:44.550 –> 00:20:52.140
Brian Bosscher: I can start I think again it varies by the state or province where you’re at so where we are here.
00:20:52.860 –> 00:21:06.060
Brian Bosscher: Basically, the Board has an obligation to see it through so if it’s you know someone is violating a rule they’re not doing what they’re supposed to have an obligation to see it through ensure that it is enforced.
00:21:07.260 –> 00:21:22.230
Brian Bosscher: Up to you know, in cases where it’s something financial you can even go so far as getting a court order that will force the sale of the unit put a LIEN on the unit sell the unit to get the money paid that’s that’s order so.
00:21:23.670 –> 00:21:26.670
Brian Bosscher: In many cases, you have to go quite far so.
00:21:28.320 –> 00:21:30.390
Brian Bosscher: Miryam anything to add from your experience.
00:21:30.600 –> 00:21:36.150
Miryam Scanga: yeah it’s always good to have a lawyer their phone number in your rolodex.
00:21:37.110 –> 00:21:50.700
Miryam Scanga: You know you we spend a lot of time doing notices and reminders and phone calls to say you know, can you please stop, can you please adjust your behavior etc, but at the end of the day, sometimes it does take a third party.
00:21:51.930 –> 00:21:57.060
Miryam Scanga: To just come in and and state, you know the obvious, or sometimes not the obvious but.
00:21:57.990 –> 00:22:10.380
Miryam Scanga: You know, having a lawyer who knows, your community is extremely important, so when you do get to those circumstances that owners are just simply not responding, the way that they need to be you have backup ready to go.
00:22:11.100 –> 00:22:25.620
Stanley Feldsott: yeah no wonder, you cannot leave for rule violation and the remedy is you go into court and get a court order compelling the owner to remove the truck.
00:22:26.550 –> 00:22:41.100
Stanley Feldsott: and turn his face or recoverable by the prevailing party and if you have a CC and RS restriction that says no trucks or no trucks over a certain size.
00:22:43.080 –> 00:22:44.340
Stanley Feldsott: it’s enforceable.
00:22:47.220 –> 00:22:55.110
Kim Brown: boards, do you have a lot of recourse, but the resolution is not necessarily always easy isn’t.
00:22:55.650 –> 00:22:57.090
Brian Bosscher: It, it is not always the same.
00:22:57.090 –> 00:22:58.110
Brian Bosscher: For you yeah.
00:22:58.140 –> 00:22:59.400
Brian Bosscher: depending on where you’re at yeah.
00:22:59.910 –> 00:23:02.610
Stanley Feldsott: A lot of times before you Sue.
00:23:03.960 –> 00:23:17.550
Stanley Feldsott: You may want to have the owner or a conference and see if you can reach a resolution that way offer mediation or arbitration.
00:23:19.530 –> 00:23:24.060
Stanley Feldsott: California you’re required to do that before you can file a suit.
00:23:26.010 –> 00:23:27.600
Stanley Feldsott: or most serves actually.
00:23:30.510 –> 00:23:38.190
Stanley Feldsott: But these are all things that you do have in your little basket of how you can enforce roles.
00:23:39.630 –> 00:23:44.460
Stanley Feldsott: And I’ve always believed if you’re not going to enforce the world on Dr.
00:23:46.380 –> 00:23:49.770
Kim Brown: that’s a great point they have to be meaningful.
00:23:51.630 –> 00:24:06.450
Kim Brown: Perfect so that brings me to our next point is getting an attorney involved so Stanley if you are engaged with an owner who it seems like this is going to be a difficult.
00:24:07.230 –> 00:24:18.720
Kim Brown: issue to resolve at what point do we pick up the phone and call you does a board or a property manager do this is it you know after they’ve written the like the fourth.
00:24:20.190 –> 00:24:29.070
Kim Brown: Formal violation letter is it after they’ve issued fees or is it after they’re looking into taking this owner to court yeah.
00:24:29.250 –> 00:24:46.500
Stanley Feldsott: What about you know, the first thing I would say is get attorney involved before you need an attorney the order to revealing your roles your procedures your enforcement procedures.
00:24:48.690 –> 00:24:50.820
Stanley Feldsott: Cases Barry.
00:24:52.440 –> 00:25:19.890
Stanley Feldsott: Will often times, try and get the owner to meet with the board and reason with them litigation should be the last resort, but sometimes you have no choice you have an owner pound on the table and tell you this is America, this is Canada and I are my record ever I want.
00:25:22.020 –> 00:25:23.040
Stanley Feldsott: And so.
00:25:24.990 –> 00:25:36.360
Stanley Feldsott: You know, late, and I have a procedure where are you going to send out, first of all letters I would recommend inviting the owner and.
00:25:37.980 –> 00:25:39.750
Stanley Feldsott: For a meeting with the board.
00:25:41.610 –> 00:25:45.870
Stanley Feldsott: Fines or something that, in some instances work.
00:25:48.660 –> 00:25:51.990
Stanley Feldsott: it’s more difficult to enforce a fine.
00:25:53.070 –> 00:25:55.800
Stanley Feldsott: can call them it is to.
00:25:56.970 –> 00:26:11.430
Stanley Feldsott: A direct challenge cord or remove the truck lot of judges I’ve seen fines should not be viewed as revenue raising devices that should be used.
00:26:11.460 –> 00:26:12.270
Stanley Feldsott: To change.
00:26:12.300 –> 00:26:13.830
Brian Bosscher: behavior yeah.
00:26:14.130 –> 00:26:19.230
Stanley Feldsott: you’re finding a person, month after month of the same violation.
00:26:20.700 –> 00:26:33.540
Stanley Feldsott: you’re not changing behavior and so that’s when you need to go into court file and actually get a court order bit compel compliance.
00:26:35.070 –> 00:26:50.760
Kim Brown: perfect and on that note and what types of records or documents with you like to see your need to see from an association if they’re coming to you for help with a with a violation issue.
00:26:54.780 –> 00:27:05.160
Stanley Feldsott: Well, if it’s a CC and our violation of course I want a copy of the season rocks are definitely declaration a covenant conditions restrictions.
00:27:07.290 –> 00:27:11.190
Stanley Feldsott: And then I want to see the efforts in writing.
00:27:12.720 –> 00:27:19.470
Stanley Feldsott: Of the board company to get compliance before they’ve come to see me.
00:27:21.540 –> 00:27:43.440
Stanley Feldsott: And that, when that hasn’t worked when you won’t come to a meeting or you find them for three months in a row, and it just hasn’t changed behavior we of course want to see the paper trail attorneys love paper and becoming card for attorneys and as a digital age.
00:27:46.140 –> 00:27:48.870
Stanley Feldsott: Paper judges understand.
00:27:51.900 –> 00:28:01.230
Kim Brown: Okay perfect so keep everything in writing, all these document communications letters must, like everything just everything keep it on.
00:28:03.120 –> 00:28:03.840
Kim Brown: Excellent.
00:28:04.860 –> 00:28:05.370
Kim Brown: Okay.
00:28:07.350 –> 00:28:26.310
Kim Brown: And, and there are some best practices that each ways can go by to as family mentioned yes contact your attorney before you need them, not only is it may put a time constraint on a case if if it ends up going or getting very serious and needs to go to court.
00:28:27.360 –> 00:28:31.080
Kim Brown: it’s probably more costly for a rush cases, well, I imagine.
00:28:32.100 –> 00:28:37.680
Kim Brown: But you just want to give your attorney as much time as they can have to build a solid case.
00:28:39.300 –> 00:28:48.660
Kim Brown: Should should you need to go to court and then having an attorney on retainer is often the smarter option and is that because they can offer you.
00:28:49.980 –> 00:28:59.280
Kim Brown: A package deal is it because well they do you know your Community better as well, but what are some of the other benefits to having an attorney on retainer.
00:28:59.670 –> 00:29:13.830
Stanley Feldsott: Well, economically most HOA attorneys will offer a special retainer package two or more association, be it can pay $1,000 a year.
00:29:14.340 –> 00:29:26.940
Stanley Feldsott: and will always answer telephone questions during that year or simple questions you’re running the business and you using other people’s money.
00:29:27.930 –> 00:29:38.730
Stanley Feldsott: And I don’t know how many times over the years I’ve said how could you have sign that contract with a lead, without letting an attorney see it.
00:29:39.630 –> 00:29:51.600
Stanley Feldsott: And so I think one of the things advantages over a retainer is there’s always the feeling that well we paid for fell suck maybe we’ll ask me let’s ask him.
00:29:52.230 –> 00:30:06.180
Stanley Feldsott: I mean I’ve sat in board meetings where the board members will argue for as long as I can bear some legal point now finally go why don’t you ask your attorney he’s sitting right here.
00:30:07.590 –> 00:30:08.310
Stanley Feldsott: and
00:30:10.950 –> 00:30:11.760
Stanley Feldsott: So I think.
00:30:13.020 –> 00:30:15.600
Stanley Feldsott: It is kind of a case by case.
00:30:17.370 –> 00:30:24.240
Stanley Feldsott: basis, but a lot of it is you know, creating being consistent.
00:30:25.500 –> 00:30:27.720
Stanley Feldsott: Following your procedures.
00:30:30.510 –> 00:30:36.210
Stanley Feldsott: under law mode one Canada United States for that part.
00:30:37.470 –> 00:30:41.730
Stanley Feldsott: You can find someone without first giving them a hearing.
00:30:43.020 –> 00:30:58.800
Stanley Feldsott: And my experience has been is that the larger the fine, the less likely, the Court is to enforce it, you know part of it is soda you know what are you doing finding people I’m the judge that’s what I do.
00:30:59.940 –> 00:31:05.700
Stanley Feldsott: But when it comes off is that it’s not changing behavior.
00:31:07.200 –> 00:31:16.830
Stanley Feldsott: that’s when you want to go to court and that’s when you want to have your procedures, make sure they were followed the documented in.
00:31:17.970 –> 00:31:18.900
Stanley Feldsott: minutes.
00:31:23.910 –> 00:31:24.210
Brian Bosscher: Okay.
00:31:25.110 –> 00:31:37.650
Stanley Feldsott: and make it turn it should be the last place you go, we should be the first place, then you need to do a lot of stuff in between, and then use the last place.
00:31:39.240 –> 00:31:48.210
Kim Brown: Excellent your em and and then on that kind of to your attorney also shouldn’t be so you shouldn’t call your attorney for every single thing.
00:31:49.680 –> 00:31:58.470
Kim Brown: Sending a warning letter that’s not appropriate for it, you want to involve them if you’re doing something quite significant, such as.
00:31:59.790 –> 00:32:01.230
Kim Brown: Trying to implement your goals.
00:32:02.760 –> 00:32:03.090
Brian Bosscher: yeah.
00:32:03.120 –> 00:32:14.670
Stanley Feldsott: We have a 10 hour lunch well now have a 10 hour limit on our retainers based on you’re not using an attorney 10 hours a year.
00:32:15.120 –> 00:32:26.040
Stanley Feldsott: you’re doing stuff you shouldn’t be doing without consulting with an attorney back when I first started, I had no our limit.
00:32:26.670 –> 00:32:38.790
Stanley Feldsott: And I was getting association super abuse it and say, well, why should we bother going out and saying losing violation will have felt sad send the violation letter to everyone.
00:32:39.960 –> 00:32:43.140
Stanley Feldsott: Which is not good right yeah yeah.
00:32:44.670 –> 00:32:48.180
Kim Brown: Okay, and Thank you everyone for.
00:32:49.350 –> 00:32:54.690
Kim Brown: For going through that with us and now we’d love to get to some more of your questions.
00:32:55.680 –> 00:33:02.700
Brian Bosscher: So we have a lot of questions here so which is great so we’re going to we’re gonna try and pull some that I think are sort of.
00:33:03.330 –> 00:33:12.600
Brian Bosscher: Broadly applicable and then we will get into some of the more specific ones, after that, so the first one, I think here that’s really interesting.
00:33:13.260 –> 00:33:22.800
Brian Bosscher: Does a board search for violations or wait until another homeowner brings it to the Boards attention and I I can speak to that.
00:33:23.250 –> 00:33:29.580
Brian Bosscher: Just having works, the number of our communities, there are two approaches to this, and I think it depends on the size of the Community.
00:33:29.880 –> 00:33:37.920
Brian Bosscher: And the number, you know, the amount of resources, you have an amount people in the Community, so a lot of smaller associations or condos.
00:33:38.220 –> 00:33:46.620
Brian Bosscher: will do the you know if you report it we’re going to follow up on it, I think this is applicable generally for for high rises and things where people are kind of self-contained.
00:33:47.190 –> 00:33:53.370
Brian Bosscher: A lot of ways that we work with, on the other hand, and where they’re they’re bigger communities will have a whole.
00:33:54.480 –> 00:34:01.500
Brian Bosscher: You know, in the most extraordinary cases of violation team, whose responsibility it is to go out look for.
00:34:02.010 –> 00:34:16.020
Brian Bosscher: document catalog and follow up on violations, so it really depends on the resources, you have available types of CC and RS that you have in place how prone people are violating those verses complying with them.
00:34:17.910 –> 00:34:18.150
Brian Bosscher: So.
00:34:18.360 –> 00:34:23.850
Stanley Feldsott: There, there are aspects of limitation, where you have to bring an action.
00:34:25.230 –> 00:34:29.280
Stanley Feldsott: Within so many years California five years.
00:34:30.660 –> 00:34:36.360
Stanley Feldsott: or yeah that was gone and wish for that homeowner.
00:34:37.380 –> 00:34:38.700
Brian Bosscher: Okay, good great point.
00:34:40.110 –> 00:34:50.700
Brian Bosscher: next question I want to go to here is Brian asks what do you think I’m interested to hear what do you think are the top rules to be included in HOA bylaws.
00:34:51.330 –> 00:35:02.250
Brian Bosscher: So I think was a very interesting question and lots of people would be interested in the answer so Stanley if you had to say, what are the top two or three bylaws that you think would be the most important.
00:35:03.060 –> 00:35:04.740
Stanley Feldsott: Okay, well, usually.
00:35:06.720 –> 00:35:28.020
Stanley Feldsott: gets to be a language situation, maybe bylaws or a separate document that normally you inherit and those are the procedural rules by which the association operates, how many directors, do you have what’s their turn, how many people, you need for Warren.
00:35:29.160 –> 00:35:40.380
Stanley Feldsott: Most of what we’re talking about I think our roles that are promulgated by the board or adopted the developer and doctor them.
00:35:41.970 –> 00:35:55.800
Stanley Feldsott: The COP problems, one of them is parking lots of parking problems because there just isn’t enough parking provided for association.
00:35:58.470 –> 00:36:00.780
Stanley Feldsott: noises frequently.
00:36:01.980 –> 00:36:02.490
00:36:04.650 –> 00:36:05.730
Stanley Feldsott: and
00:36:10.410 –> 00:36:20.250
Stanley Feldsott: What else we get architectural violations people making changes to the exterior.
00:36:21.750 –> 00:36:30.600
Stanley Feldsott: The I think earlier, we had the one on the top leak from the top floor knowing down to the floor below.
00:36:32.580 –> 00:36:35.760
Stanley Feldsott: that’s oftentimes a problem.
00:36:38.700 –> 00:36:45.510
Stanley Feldsott: Sometimes tenants can be a problem, other times I find.
00:36:46.920 –> 00:37:01.620
Stanley Feldsott: it’s, even though they may not be owners, if you treat them as owners, though, act as owners and I usually it’s sort of all tell us a minority view.
00:37:02.580 –> 00:37:21.150
Stanley Feldsott: My position is always been you know, let tenants that 10 of the board meetings don’t have to necessarily let them speak but they’re not disrupted, let them be nice but are that seminar one me.
00:37:23.070 –> 00:37:30.720
Brian Bosscher: I guess your point is it makes them more invested in participating in the Community if they know what’s going on is that what you’re getting at.
00:37:31.230 –> 00:37:40.860
Stanley Feldsott: yeah and many times you have long term tenants, and they have a much greater interest then someone who’s flipping units are.
00:37:41.970 –> 00:37:44.790
Stanley Feldsott: going to buy fix it up and sell it.
00:37:48.510 –> 00:37:55.500
Brian Bosscher: Okay, good um do you want to let’s talk briefly, I think that tub the leak leaky top one is interesting and.
00:37:56.790 –> 00:38:04.980
Brian Bosscher: That one went in right at the beginning, so I do want to address that in that case where the Homer is refusing to fix something that’s impacting the unit below.
00:38:06.210 –> 00:38:08.460
Brian Bosscher: What would be your sort of next steps there.
00:38:09.780 –> 00:38:20.880
Stanley Feldsott: Well, the first thing you want to do is make claims on insurance which kind of always begs the question, but a lot of times the.
00:38:21.720 –> 00:38:48.780
Stanley Feldsott: Owners insurance will cover the loss now the owner typically in a condominium may not have what we call a personal liability insurance and that it’s more difficult to extract money from the individual but costs, the first thing you need to do is stop the leak, and if.
00:38:50.550 –> 00:39:04.530
Stanley Feldsott: You know the owner won’t stop it boasts declarations of covenants conditions and restrictions will have a provision that gives the association or right of entry.
00:39:05.550 –> 00:39:20.820
Stanley Feldsott: And means you can go and you have to give notice and sometimes even in an emergency situation if it’s a bad link, you may want to go in with very minimal notice.
00:39:23.610 –> 00:39:24.330
Stanley Feldsott: and
00:39:26.250 –> 00:39:27.360
Stanley Feldsott: Ultimately.
00:39:29.100 –> 00:39:30.240
Stanley Feldsott: One case.
00:39:31.260 –> 00:39:35.250
Stanley Feldsott: We had recently that exact situation.
00:39:36.330 –> 00:39:39.210
Stanley Feldsott: insurance company would not pay.
00:39:40.530 –> 00:40:03.120
Stanley Feldsott: For the damage to the unit below and we actually had to sue and then the insurance company paid so sometimes you always have to keep in mind insurance companies are not public utilities and they can figure a way around it, they will.
00:40:04.740 –> 00:40:08.400
Brian Bosscher: Okay, great prospective Miryam, I just wanted to ask.
00:40:08.670 –> 00:40:11.130
Brian Bosscher: You quickly because leaks.
00:40:11.460 –> 00:40:16.710
Brian Bosscher: very much a high rise thing, and I know you have a ton of high rise experience anything to add on.
00:40:17.550 –> 00:40:20.460
Brian Bosscher: On that front dealing you’re in from your experience dealing with the leaks.
00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:30.060
Miryam Scanga: yeah you know well, I think Stanley said some some definitely great points there um I found more in the in the condos that are taught towers.
00:40:31.110 –> 00:40:42.270
Miryam Scanga: Mental health actually does also play into some of the challenges when it comes to dealing with rules and regulations and things like that, more often than not I’ve actually seen it a lot more common.
00:40:43.770 –> 00:40:51.450
Miryam Scanga: Where you know the owner is doesn’t want to change their bathroom doesn’t want to do anything doesn’t want to clean up.
00:40:52.080 –> 00:41:02.460
Miryam Scanga: Their bathroom I’ve actually seen it where I had to teach them how to clean up their bathroom because they were in such a state of just unavailability.
00:41:03.150 –> 00:41:16.110
Miryam Scanga: That sometimes you always can’t approach situations where it’s you know you’re wrong and we need to do this, and this is the law and things like that sometimes you do have to take a more human approach to certain situations.
00:41:16.440 –> 00:41:24.420
Miryam Scanga: If it’s constantly leaking, why are they not getting, why is it not getting fixed, what is the state of the unit, you know, is it a hoarder situation.
00:41:25.110 –> 00:41:33.510
Miryam Scanga: Is the person not able to take care of themselves are they physically physically not able to take care of themselves do they understand that it’s hurting others.
00:41:34.500 –> 00:41:40.800
Miryam Scanga: I’ve seen it more and more where mental health definitely plays a factor into some of these challenges with.
00:41:41.760 –> 00:41:47.760
Miryam Scanga: With everything it can be anywhere from a tub lead to a noise complaint to garbage and littering parking.
00:41:48.300 –> 00:41:57.570
Miryam Scanga: But sometimes you do have to ask the right questions it’s more you know, to put down the law to say you’re doing something wrong and you need to fix it and stop.
00:41:57.810 –> 00:42:06.960
Miryam Scanga: Of course, as you know, as a property manager, I did that all the time, but there were other times when you have to address in a different way to say, well, why are you acting like this, you know.
00:42:07.770 –> 00:42:10.200
Miryam Scanga: Is there a certain expectation that you had.
00:42:10.800 –> 00:42:19.410
Miryam Scanga: That that’s why you feel that way and you’d be surprised you’d be surprised, there is a lot of people who are going through a lot of things and you don’t really know until you really.
00:42:19.800 –> 00:42:28.710
Miryam Scanga: Open that door and you see the state that they’re living in and it really could answer a lot of questions there yeah.
00:42:29.070 –> 00:42:30.720
Brian Bosscher: Great great perspective.
00:42:32.520 –> 00:42:35.490
Brian Bosscher: um okay so Kim I want to ask.
00:42:36.570 –> 00:42:40.050
Brian Bosscher: I don’t recall did we have more content or did we have just one.
00:42:41.490 –> 00:42:41.850
Kim Brown: Okay.
00:42:43.230 –> 00:42:43.800
Kim Brown: questions.
00:42:44.160 –> 00:42:45.060
Brian Bosscher: got it okay.
00:42:45.270 –> 00:43:03.120
Brian Bosscher: So we’ve got a couple of a lot of questions here, so one of the ones that I saw that I thought was really interesting and worthwhile is someone asked what evidence do people need or you know evidence or verification, does he need for enforcing a requirement.
00:43:04.560 –> 00:43:05.100
Brian Bosscher: So.
00:43:06.210 –> 00:43:10.410
Brian Bosscher: I guess Stanley maybe you want to speak to that briefly and then I’d have something to add as well.
00:43:12.090 –> 00:43:14.070
Stanley Feldsott: Well, a couple of things one.
00:43:15.390 –> 00:43:19.650
Stanley Feldsott: The kind of evidence, you need is going to depend on.
00:43:20.700 –> 00:43:24.060
Stanley Feldsott: What the violation is if it’s.
00:43:25.350 –> 00:43:30.990
Stanley Feldsott: parking a truck or storing let’s say a trailer on the property.
00:43:33.270 –> 00:43:41.370
Stanley Feldsott: You know, you need to unless you’re going to have someone sit there, you may want to mark the tires with chalk.
00:43:44.520 –> 00:43:45.240
Stanley Feldsott: The.
00:43:48.090 –> 00:44:00.570
Stanley Feldsott: You know, is it prohibited clearly by the rules, and you want to have evidence of the steps you’ve taken to try and get voluntary.
00:44:02.460 –> 00:44:05.820
Stanley Feldsott: Compliance like I said the litigation is.
00:44:07.050 –> 00:44:11.220
Stanley Feldsott: You know you’re going to have a winner and some of those little want to get even.
00:44:12.300 –> 00:44:15.660
Stanley Feldsott: If it’s also apple boards are not.
00:44:17.370 –> 00:44:23.370
Stanley Feldsott: forced to and for every violation that brought to that.
00:44:24.420 –> 00:44:30.450
Stanley Feldsott: California, they can exercise will call the business judgment rule and decide, you know.
00:44:31.560 –> 00:44:38.370
Stanley Feldsott: This is really a dispute between you and your neighbor Bob some minor issue.
00:44:40.050 –> 00:44:58.860
Stanley Feldsott: we’re not going to get involved in back you as an owner, have the right to enforce the provisions of the governing documents and since it’s just you’re right that’s being violated and it’s minor.
00:45:00.030 –> 00:45:01.920
Stanley Feldsott: we’re not going to take action.
00:45:04.020 –> 00:45:06.210
Brian Bosscher: Interesting okay good good to know.
00:45:07.560 –> 00:45:15.450
Brian Bosscher: The other angle, for this one, I would say the server obvious simple answer is photographs so.
00:45:16.290 –> 00:45:25.500
Brian Bosscher: You know documenting you know if there’s a park or something parked on the property that’s not permitted if they’ve made architectural modifications.
00:45:25.860 –> 00:45:33.150
Brian Bosscher: The simplest and easiest starting point is documenting it by taking pictures and that’s where a system and a tool like Connor control comes in.
00:45:33.720 –> 00:45:47.130
Brian Bosscher: A small plug for us here, using the mobile APP makes it easy take pictures attached to a violation, you can do that all right from your phone so think documenting and having photographs of what’s wrong and then.
00:45:48.150 –> 00:46:00.660
Brian Bosscher: photographs that are sort of timestamp over time is also helpful so you’ve you’ve checked in February, it was there in March, it was there in April, it was there, so you’ve got documentation sorry sort of a pattern.
00:46:02.700 –> 00:46:05.880
Brian Bosscher: Okay, so I want to move to the next question I see here that’s an interesting one.
00:46:06.810 –> 00:46:14.430
Brian Bosscher: Is there an easy way to increase participation of owners our bylaws require majority vote of owners to accept any changes being made.
00:46:14.670 –> 00:46:23.010
Brian Bosscher: But we see a high percentage of apathy amongst owners, we have such as attending our yearly business meeting where elections of Council members take place so in order to make changes.
00:46:23.250 –> 00:46:38.820
Brian Bosscher: That are outdated we don’t have the majority on board to make those changes that we want to ask them Miryam because I know I know in high rises in Toronto, we have a lot of owner investors off site owners and that lack of participation.
00:46:40.050 –> 00:46:44.370
Brian Bosscher: can be a real challenge so anything you want to share on how to deal with that.
00:46:44.400 –> 00:46:58.200
Miryam Scanga: Certainly if you’re having an in person meeting everyone loves a free dinner everyone loves a free lunch I kind of like half -heartedly say it, but, honestly, if you are willing to accommodate some refreshments.
00:46:59.310 –> 00:47:06.720
Miryam Scanga: make it more of a little bit of a social event, some people are then more intrigued because they are then you know.
00:47:07.350 –> 00:47:13.170
Miryam Scanga: go into it with an expectation that this is going to be fun and it’s not you know doing a tour or a task.
00:47:13.470 –> 00:47:18.300
Miryam Scanga: I’ve had some communities where they do a wine and cheese after, but you have to stay for the meeting.
00:47:18.660 –> 00:47:26.910
Miryam Scanga: So you have to sit through an hour of business in order to enjoy after so that’s been quite successful for in person, meetings and because.
00:47:27.210 –> 00:47:36.480
Miryam Scanga: Of the virtual world that we’re now living in I’ve definitely seen a huge increase in participation, when you do virtual meetings on zoom.
00:47:36.990 –> 00:47:45.600
Miryam Scanga: We do have a platform, a part of our module is to do, ie voting and proxy ballads where you can do advanced voting, you can do live voting.
00:47:45.840 –> 00:47:55.890
Miryam Scanga: And I’ve had communities where they haven’t been able to obtain a quorum count for three years and all of a sudden, they are able to obtain quorum within one week.
00:47:56.430 –> 00:48:08.550
Miryam Scanga: So definitely having the option of doing online can really increase usability adoption things like that, because maybe not everyone’s able to get to the location.
00:48:09.180 –> 00:48:21.750
Miryam Scanga: You know, maybe they you know, whoever know you never really know what people are going through, as I mentioned before, so, giving them the options just sit on their phone and listen in really is unbelievably helpful.
00:48:22.830 –> 00:48:32.400
Miryam Scanga: So you know the person you never thought would ever ask a question brings up a very valid point because they’re just sitting there and listening and they can be in the comfort of their own home.
00:48:32.910 –> 00:48:49.080
Miryam Scanga: something about that just people are really gravitating towards more so, our virtual our virtual modules have definitely been successful, but of course everybody loves food, so if that’s a way to get people in the door might as well you know bake some cookies.
00:48:49.860 –> 00:48:53.010
Brian Bosscher: Absolutely okay great great answer Miryam thanks.
00:48:56.760 –> 00:48:58.770
Stanley Feldsott: I’m just going to add our fire at.
00:49:00.210 –> 00:49:08.670
Stanley Feldsott: Well, one that you can doesn’t really get participation, but let you do the meeting you can use proxies.
00:49:10.170 –> 00:49:20.010
Stanley Feldsott: Under certain limited circumstances and different States have different laws on proxies but my experience has been that.
00:49:21.630 –> 00:49:30.030
Stanley Feldsott: Putting in the notice you’re going to consider an assessment increase or for some reason be decorate the clubhouse.
00:49:31.650 –> 00:49:32.970
Stanley Feldsott: out yep.
00:49:33.720 –> 00:49:39.360
Brian Bosscher: The threat of a fee increase will do it every time you’ll see that participation like like no other.
00:49:41.280 –> 00:49:48.360
Brian Bosscher: One quick one here another question, I need to ask Stanley sort of already answered it earlier so I’ll just reiterate what he said before.
00:49:48.990 –> 00:50:02.370
Brian Bosscher: What if the board ignores all of their fiduciary responsibilities what actions should universe take, and I think the real easy answer, there is a recall, or you know some alternative slate of candidates.
00:50:03.150 –> 00:50:10.050
Brian Bosscher: Account you know for the next election sort of depending on whether recalls allowed in in your your jurisdiction.
00:50:12.780 –> 00:50:17.430
Brian Bosscher: So I’m just looking through the questions here Kim, are there any that stand out to you.
00:50:17.490 –> 00:50:18.240
Brian Bosscher: They want to address.
00:50:18.630 –> 00:50:47.670
Brian Bosscher: So in I’ve got while you’re looking there’s one here’s someone asked in violation notices, what is the proper time period to give the unit owner to respond to a dispute any any guidance on sort of timelines they’re standing.
00:50:48.840 –> 00:51:00.390
Stanley Feldsott: Well, a lot of times, it will be in the rules if you’ll send out a letter typically it should be at least 15 days notice.
00:51:01.980 –> 00:51:07.620
Stanley Feldsott: that’s the minimum me.
00:51:08.400 –> 00:51:08.610
Brian Bosscher: yeah.
00:51:08.820 –> 00:51:09.240
00:51:10.350 –> 00:51:11.760
Stanley Feldsott: You want the order to come.
00:51:12.390 –> 00:51:12.690
00:51:13.710 –> 00:51:19.920
Brian Bosscher: So two weeks seems seems reasonable yeah in in absence of any specific.
00:51:21.180 –> 00:51:23.340
Brian Bosscher: You know timeline in your your rules.
00:51:25.020 –> 00:51:36.090
Kim Brown: Everything I do actually have one about towing vehicle and it is it legal to tow vehicle from a driveway that’s private property.
00:51:40.680 –> 00:51:44.340
Stanley Feldsott: I hate to give you the Attorney answer of it depends.
00:51:45.480 –> 00:51:45.810
Stanley Feldsott: But.
00:51:46.080 –> 00:51:51.870
Stanley Feldsott: First of all, a lot of times to Dr boyce are not private property, but common area.
00:51:53.220 –> 00:51:53.850
Stanley Feldsott: To.
00:51:56.160 –> 00:51:59.640
Stanley Feldsott: I can tell you in California, the vehicle code.
00:52:01.380 –> 00:52:13.350
Stanley Feldsott: provides that certain amount of signage has to be put up at the entrances and that vehicles will be told that are parked in violation.
00:52:15.600 –> 00:52:16.620
Stanley Feldsott: Of the roles.
00:52:17.760 –> 00:52:32.040
Stanley Feldsott: If it the driveway is private property, in most cases you’re going to need a provision in your declaration of covenants conditions and restrictions that.
00:52:33.240 –> 00:52:50.400
Stanley Feldsott: prohibit parking and the driveway a lot of times what they’ll say is the garage must be used for the arcane of vehicles and in a lot of developments that two car garage.
00:52:51.810 –> 00:53:14.310
Stanley Feldsott: will give them a permit that three cars are the kids have now grown up and got their own car and they’re still living at home or use a permit system, and again I imagine Condo Control really has a program that deals with her many.
00:53:16.530 –> 00:53:18.480
Stanley Feldsott: game and how you track it.
00:53:20.670 –> 00:53:37.860
Kim Brown: Property I’ve got another one which I’m sure comes up quite a bit, how does one, how does it board word Community go about addressing an issue like smoking or cleaning up after a pet if violation letters aren’t solving the problem.
00:53:43.980 –> 00:53:53.070
Stanley Feldsott: Smoking is a hard one we recently had a trial case where the jury did a war.
00:53:54.240 –> 00:54:07.080
Stanley Feldsott: The complaining owner, the board stayed out of it, saying hey smoking’s legal you purchased in a condominium or you know your balcony was right next to theirs.
00:54:08.400 –> 00:54:23.010
Stanley Feldsott: But they had a trial with asthma and our jury did make an award but by and large it’s very difficult to control the smoking a pet.
00:54:24.360 –> 00:54:42.930
Stanley Feldsott: situation, one of the big problems you have is whose path, was it and a lot of more fluent associations with to DNA samples of any doctor can have and then they’ll check to see.
00:54:43.950 –> 00:54:44.520
Stanley Feldsott: You.
00:54:46.590 –> 00:54:48.840
Stanley Feldsott: It was a company called.
00:54:51.000 –> 00:54:58.020
Stanley Feldsott: entre nor then come out one, so we can clean up all the stuff.
00:54:59.160 –> 00:55:10.050
Stanley Feldsott: Having disposable bags and fans at various points, is something that can help minimize the problem.
00:55:11.280 –> 00:55:18.150
Stanley Feldsott: I don’t think you’re ever going to totally lemonade it, there are some people are just not going to pick up but.
00:55:21.060 –> 00:55:24.420
Kim Brown: Thank you yeah that’s that’s always comes up so tough.
00:55:25.470 –> 00:55:26.130
Kim Brown: and
00:55:26.880 –> 00:55:30.570
Brian Bosscher: Kim I do have one here, I have a question that came up both.
00:55:31.770 –> 00:55:33.300
Brian Bosscher: From a couple people actually.
00:55:34.560 –> 00:55:49.830
Brian Bosscher: trying to get meeting minutes from the board and management and they’ve said that they don’t have the Minutes and this Angie says she’s in California, so any advice on on how to deal with getting the documents.
00:55:51.630 –> 00:55:55.710
Stanley Feldsott: and California is easy, because the code.
00:55:57.000 –> 00:56:00.810
Stanley Feldsott: provides that the current years minutes.
00:56:02.550 –> 00:56:23.670
Stanley Feldsott: On request by the owner, have to be provided for them and they provide that the owner can go in a small claims court and yet I forgotten the dollar amount because attorneys never got are not allowed in small claims court, but it can be a substantial.
00:56:26.550 –> 00:56:38.940
Stanley Feldsott: Now, a lot of times it’s not the management company spoke to him, it just don’t do the borgias as many minutes as meetings it doesn’t take minutes and that’s a problem.
00:56:39.510 –> 00:56:40.590
Stanley Feldsott: yeah but.
00:56:42.330 –> 00:56:57.000
Stanley Feldsott: Usually doesn’t matter management company, especially that’s someone like me to put in a plug for you here condos intro is going to make sure that the meeting minutes are up.
00:56:57.990 –> 00:57:14.490
Stanley Feldsott: California requires that, if not the final ones, a draft of the Minutes have to go up within so many days after the meeting and then of course the final ones get approved and they become.
00:57:15.630 –> 00:57:18.300
Stanley Feldsott: Part of the next.
00:57:19.590 –> 00:57:30.660
Miryam Scanga: Okay, and if I could add in there sure I’m being the minute minute Secretary for my board and I definitely am delayed with sending minutes every month and I hear it.
00:57:31.710 –> 00:57:39.210
Miryam Scanga: But you know in my Community we’ve chosen not to get a minute taker but minute takers are so worth the extra costs.
00:57:40.380 –> 00:57:47.520
Miryam Scanga: You know, doing minutes is a thankless job you have to relive that two or three hours and depending on the way you do your minutes.
00:57:47.760 –> 00:58:04.590
Miryam Scanga: And it can be extremely excruciating exclusive excruciating for a volunteer position so it’s not my favorite thing to do in the world, but if the Community is willing to hire professional minute taker for those bigger meetings or for the annual.
00:58:05.760 –> 00:58:15.990
Miryam Scanga: Budget meeting or things like that, where you definitely know it needs to be documented, it is such it’s the worst of it is is is by far the best thing that you could do.
00:58:16.350 –> 00:58:22.320
Miryam Scanga: So then there’s no pressure and also the Minutes then stay a little bit more neutral, because we do all have our writing.
00:58:22.950 –> 00:58:35.520
Miryam Scanga: preferences, so if you have a professional minute taker who does your meeting minutes once a quarter, and you know there’s a certain standard put I really do think it makes everyone’s life.
00:58:35.610 –> 00:58:42.630
Miryam Scanga: So much to their property manager board and owners I’ve never had a terrible experience when I didn’t use a proper.
00:58:42.900 –> 00:58:43.500
Brian Bosscher: Meeting.
00:58:46.200 –> 00:58:58.410
Stanley Feldsott: I would urge forms to have either property manager professional minute taker those are often used in Cork yep.
00:58:59.310 –> 00:59:19.200
Stanley Feldsott: And it’s important that you don’t put too much in the Minutes, also a matter of transcript of everything that was sad it’s you know it’s a record of the resolutions and decisions that you made, and of course you’re going to have some transitional language but.
00:59:20.310 –> 00:59:27.150
Stanley Feldsott: Being on the board really involves a lot more work, then people realize.
00:59:27.990 –> 00:59:28.440
Stanley Feldsott: Wait a.
00:59:28.470 –> 00:59:31.860
Stanley Feldsott: minute should not be one of them.
00:59:33.510 –> 00:59:33.900
Miryam Scanga: I agree.
00:59:37.650 –> 00:59:39.420
Stanley Feldsott: That your association a letter.
00:59:40.650 –> 00:59:41.130
Brian Bosscher: Thank you.
00:59:43.980 –> 00:59:51.210
Brian Bosscher: Last one here I just Jane had asked our President has said, no one else on the board contact your attorney on retainer.
00:59:52.620 –> 01:00:00.480
Brian Bosscher: Is that legitimate, so I think it’s really a question around procedures for who context attorney and so forth, any thoughts on that one.
01:00:01.560 –> 01:00:11.070
Stanley Feldsott: Well, it would have to be by board resolution and sometimes there are legitimate reasons for it, we don’t want four directors.
01:00:11.610 –> 01:00:29.370
Stanley Feldsott: Each calling the Attorney with the same question, and so you do having a sort of a funnel or someone can trolling the questions great there’s a lot of abuses that go on with that where.
01:00:30.660 –> 01:00:39.720
Stanley Feldsott: A particular faction, particularly if you have a split Board will use that to control the.
01:00:41.370 –> 01:00:43.770
Stanley Feldsott: information that goes to the Attorney.
01:00:45.900 –> 01:00:57.870
Stanley Feldsott: We always take the position that hey unless you pass a resolution otherwise we’ll take questions from any actor director.
01:00:58.860 –> 01:01:14.610
Stanley Feldsott: Until director he calls me and says file suit and director be calls me and says hold off and then Director see calls up and start yelling at me because I haven’t filed suit.
01:01:15.630 –> 01:01:31.380
Stanley Feldsott: And so, then I say okay guys now, but there are, it can be done by board resolution and I would urge that it not be used as a political device to.
01:01:33.090 –> 01:01:39.930
Stanley Feldsott: control the board and also would urge that all questions to the board.
01:01:41.100 –> 01:01:42.540
Stanley Feldsott: Be in writing.
01:01:43.920 –> 01:02:05.940
Stanley Feldsott: And the attorneys response be in writing because sometimes if you had a hotly contested issue person who calls remembers the good stuff the Attorney said, but not the bad words yeah like I once did get a call about was this info valid and I said yes.
01:02:07.140 –> 01:02:12.960
Stanley Feldsott: And then another director called me and said well didn’t take tell you there was no quorum.
01:02:13.680 –> 01:02:36.360
Stanley Feldsott: And I said no, no, he didn’t tell me that, and so, how many in writing makes clear what the Attorney was asked, and what his answer was, and it should go through the management company, and they should be distributing that in the board packets.
01:02:38.910 –> 01:02:47.850
Brian Bosscher: Okay, well, I want to pause here, thank you for that Stanley I’m going to pause here before I hand it back to to Kim to wrap up.
01:02:49.170 –> 01:02:58.350
Brian Bosscher: I saw a couple folks asking, are you going to get my question I’m sorry we had way more questions than we were anticipating so I really appreciate everyone’s participation.
01:02:59.370 –> 01:03:07.410
Brian Bosscher: We answered 2024 questions and there’s still 64 remaining so we may go through that list, and maybe send out some and answers after.
01:03:08.610 –> 01:03:13.800
Brian Bosscher: appreciate everybody’s participation so Kim anything else to add to wrap it up.
01:03:14.250 –> 01:03:27.210
Kim Brown: That just about it, yes Thank you everyone for being so engaged really appreciate it if, by any chance, you are interested in looking at the violation tracking feature.
01:03:27.780 –> 01:03:42.450
Kim Brown: You can absolutely give us a call at 1-888-716-6636 and option one contact sales that sales that kind of control central COM or visit our website at www Condo Control central COM.
01:03:42.990 –> 01:03:51.090
Kim Brown: Again, thank you all so much for taking time out of your busy day, but we do appreciate it, and we hope to see you for our next webinar.
01:03:52.140 –> 01:03:57.090
Brian Bosscher: Thanks, thank you also to Stanley for your your contribution really appreciate you taking the time.
01:03:57.180 –> 01:03:58.320
Stanley Feldsott: It was until.
01:03:58.590 –> 01:04:00.690
Stanley Feldsott: I learned from these things.
01:04:01.860 –> 01:04:06.570
Stanley Feldsott: And it was great working with you guys and I learned some facts.
01:04:07.080 –> 01:04:09.480
Brian Bosscher: that’s awesome thanks everybody.
01:04:09.870 –> 01:04:10.470
Kim Brown: Thank you.
01:04:10.890 –> 01:04:12.120
Brian Bosscher: Have a good day bye.